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Thema: Bericht: Motoruberhohlung E28S M5

  1. #16
    Mr ///M5. Benutzerbild von alpinab10biturbo
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    Fahrzeug: M5 E34S (HD91), M5 E28S (DC91), 735i E32, 530i touring E39/2

    AW: Bericht: Motoruberhohlung E28S M5

    Let’s play advocate of the devil and reflect back on the options.

    1: New RMFD engine.
    2: Full rebuild.
    3: New cylinder head on the current engine block.
    4: Repair cylinder head on the current engine block.
    5: S/H engine.

    engine block

    Given the fact that I could not see any visual damage during the inspection of the block, it may very well be possible that it is in a fine condition. I am not that naïve to think that a visual inspection is enough to determine usability. With other words, that can only be decided after a specialist inspection. IMHO, measuring the M88 engine block is what any machine shop can do.

    If the pistons measure well within specification and the bores are OK, I can do with replacing the main-bearings and con-rod bearings including the required machine work of the crankshaft (if necessary). If any of the pistons measure out of specification, IMHO all six of them have to be replaced.

    cylinder head

    I have summarized the visual damage rather well I think. Add to that; I have the advantage of knowing that member Robinson bought a S/H head from a well-known Dutch breaker to repair the engine of his E34S HD91 model a few years ago. I hope Robinson doesn’t mind that I post a picture of that cylinder head that was taken shortly after he received it.



    I knew that he complained about the condition of that cylinder head and tried to get his money back or at least have it replaced with a good cylinder head, but to no avail so he decided to use it nonetheless. He recently attested in this thread that that head failed and needs to be replaced after 40k km.

    With other words, leaving the cracks unattended is naïve and stupid. A befriended mechanic helped me with removing the valves using his special tool and he said that he has seen a lot of such damage on a wide variety of road cars and that the machine shop doesn’t object to them. Well I do, at least for this engine.

    Let’s revert back to the combustion chamber of the cylinder head of my E28S. The green arrows point to the cracks that are similar to Robinsons example. The yellow arrow doesn’t point to a crack, but the combustion chambers of cylinders #2, #3, #4 and #5 have a crack at that point. Only the combustion chambers of cylinders #1 and #6 doesn’t have them. I assume that the coolant channels are larger at the front-and rear side of the engine.

    The red arrow points to a crack that I just discovered during the analyses of the high-resolution version of that picture. Given the fact that Udo specifically mentioned cylinder number six and all the other cylinders don’t have any damage at the same spot, I think that this is the crack that he meant in his phone conservation. But when looking at the detailed pictures, I must admit that all combustion chambers have this damage to a more or lesser extent. Although the high resolution pictures provide some detail, my Sony DSC-F717 is not an adequate tool for doing so. It simply lacks the capabilities to capture microcontrast level such as a DSLR with a decent lense can do. Retaking these pictures, but then with my Nikon D70 and 70-200VR/2.8 lense will provide for much more detail into the microcontrast level, but may be academic. Would be a nice experiment though. It certainly has a usable macro range.



    I am playing with the thought of having it send to the machine shop to have it analyzed and pressure tested. This doesn’t break the bank and will achieve objective results. Provided that it tests OK at that point and ALL the cracks can be repaired reliably, why not repair this head, and fit a complete new valve train ?

    If that particular crack cannot be repaired reliably to my terms and conditions, then it is off course game over. A new head with a new valve train (option [3]) still is significantly cheaper then a RMFD engine [1], but only if the current engine block can be reused. Off course, I need to budget for bearing replacement etc. I have the feeling that this will end in an investment that comes close or exceeds the cost of a RMFD engine, the worst case scenario.

    Camshafts are visual OK and resemble that of what can be expected for a 95k mile engine. The Timing chain, the sprockets, the guides and the oilpump for instance must be replaced, but those don’t determine the cost. The chain guides are worth zooming into though.



    The chain guide in the head is hardly worn at all. I assume that it has been replaced.



    The wear patterns in the lower chain guide (engine block) are much deeper. This probably is the cause of the distance of the OT mark on the vibration damper and the OT mark on the timing chain cover. More importantly, this proves that the lower chain guide has never been replaced and the chain also not.
    Raymond

    1985 E28 M5 (203)
    1990 E34 M5 3.6 (181)
    1988 E32 735i (198)
    2003 E39/2 530i touring (354)

  2. #17
    Mr ///M5. Benutzerbild von alpinab10biturbo
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    AW: Bericht: Motoruberhohlung E28S M5

    There is a thread on the German forum in which member JackMoore is documenting the engine rebuild of his S38B36 engine. In particular the following picture triggered my attention.



    Now, compare that with the picture of above mentioned cylinder head from member Robinson that he bought from a Dutch breaker some years ago.



    It was sold to him as a usable cylinder head from an S38B36 engine, but notice the difference in the combustion chambers. If that head is indeed from an S38B36, it must have been machined. It is widely known that machining an M88/S38 head is NOT allowed. Since that particular Dutch breaker was focussing on the E34S M5 those days, he must have known about that. It surprises me that Robinsons engine managed to run 40k km with that cylinder head.

    These pictures visualize my argument against using a S/H head as has been suggested by some members.
    Raymond

    1985 E28 M5 (203)
    1990 E34 M5 3.6 (181)
    1988 E32 735i (198)
    2003 E39/2 530i touring (354)

  3. #18
    Mr ///M5. Benutzerbild von alpinab10biturbo
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    Fahrzeug: M5 E34S (HD91), M5 E28S (DC91), 735i E32, 530i touring E39/2

    AW: Bericht: Motoruberhohlung E28S M5

    It’s great to have choices. As long as one doesn’t make a decision, it is easy to live with them. They offer a great opportunity to gain knowledge and that is why I love choices. But after a decision has been made, the opportunity to gain a wide knowledge has gone.

    I have reached a point where I don’t have the knowledge to make any decisions. The only decision that I can make is between a RMFD engine and a rebuild. For the latter, I need specialist assistance, in this case of a machine shop. But the question of repairing the head is more a metallurgical issue of the used method and for that I lack the specific knowledge. Maybe I can gain some.

    In any case, I also have posted a much shorter summary on the Dutch ‘driving-fun’ forum. One of the members that reacted owns an E30 M3 with an S14B23 engine. He also had to remove the cylinder head for some reason and discovered similar cracks between both exhaust ports. He didn’t describe them accurately enough, but quantified a repair (weld) cost between 500 Euro and 600 Euro. He weighed that against the cost of a new head that for his car was in the 1000 to 1100 Euro range. I checked the *** and found this out to be true for the early 200hp version of the S14B23. The later 215hp, 220hp and 238hp versions including the S14B25 (E30 M3 sport evo) require an investment of between 2385 Euro and 2505 Euro ex VAT. Anyhow, he decided that the difference between repairing the cracks and a new head is too small to consider a repair.

    He also added that he learnt from various sources that the repair method is critical. Some say that welding can affect the water galleries underneath the welding spots; some others say it can definitely be done provided one does know what he/she is doing.

    Then off course there are the metallurgical and temperature issues to consider. Another member pointed me towards the homogeny of the weld and the effect of the repair method to the flatness of the head. This is an important issue since it is not allowed to machine let alone skim the head [1]. When I extrapolate the repair cost of the above-mentioned S14 head with four cracks to my M88 engine with about twenty of those, I anticipate a repair cost of 2k to 2k5 Euro for my cylinder head, but even then, it will be very tricky. Despite my best efforts to see another point of view, I still believe a new RMFD engine is the best way out of this mess. I am not ruling out a new cylinder head and thus keep the short engine, but the difference with a RMFD engine will be very small. At least it saves me from the hassle of rebuilding the engine, which is also worth quite a lot. In the mean time, I have stripped some more parts of the engine. The thermostat house, the radiator and all the coolant water hoses have been removed.



    The next step is the removal of the engine-wiring loom so I can restore the connections towards the coolant temperature sender, the coolant temperature sensor and the temperature switch. I am close to the removal of the engine, but that will not happen untill after my holidays.
    Raymond

    1985 E28 M5 (203)
    1990 E34 M5 3.6 (181)
    1988 E32 735i (198)
    2003 E39/2 530i touring (354)

  4. #19
    Mr ///M5. Benutzerbild von alpinab10biturbo
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    AW: Bericht: Motoruberhohlung E28S M5

    It has been two months since my last update. The main reason is that I was busy with the extension of my house. Well, I didn't do that much personally as I ousourced most of the work to a contractor but such jobs take time and I was not able to manage two large projects at the same time so the E28S had to wait.

    I did make some time for the annual E34S Alps tour ( some teaser pics ) during which I discussed this subject with member Konstantin and Dominik. They revived the idea to maintain matching numbers. This is an important criteria for enthusiast cars, especially since they have a significant value. E28S M5's have seen a 47% value gain in the last year according to the German Classic Data institute that maintains a 'blue book' for classic cars and young timers.

    Besides, Konstantin added the argument that the 2year warranty on new engines does not make much sense given the low annual mileage that youngtimers like my E28S are being used.

    With other words, the rebuilding option emerged from the deep. However, I need a new cylinder head for that. Whilst dining in Berchtesgaden on Friday the 19th, we tried to find out if a new cylinder head is delivered as a complete assembly, thus including valves and valve springs. If that is the case, a rebuild does make sense financially after all (compared to buying a RMFD engine from BMW that is).

    Last Monday, I called my dealer to inform about the availability of M88/3 cylinder heads. I was told that the last known prices was somewhere close to 2k5 Euro ex VAT, but that these are NLA. Complete RMFD M88/3 engines are still on backorder with an unknown delivery time. I asked my dealer to confirm that from BMW AG, but since their network is limited to that the Dutch dealer system, I am doubtfull that I will receive accurate information. I can use my contacts in the German dealer system, but that is something for next week.

    In the mean time, I am contemplating the purchase of a used cylinder head and maybe a complete engine. I did track down a used head in Germany last week for an interesting price and when this part turns out to be usefull I may buy it. Usefull means no cracks and that valve guides and seats can be replaced.

    New valves, both exhaust and intake, valve springs etc are stocked in Germany so that should not be a problem. Also a piston ring set and pistons are stocked. It's just that the cylinder head itself is a problem.
    Raymond

    1985 E28 M5 (203)
    1990 E34 M5 3.6 (181)
    1988 E32 735i (198)
    2003 E39/2 530i touring (354)

  5. #20
    Mr ///M5. Benutzerbild von alpinab10biturbo
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    AW: Bericht: Motoruberhohlung E28S M5

    I received some pictures from the used head that I found in Germany earlier this week. They look promising, but I want a visual inspection on site so I am planning an 800km trip to Germany in the upcomming week. A nice job for the diesel powered A6 workhorse
    Raymond

    1985 E28 M5 (203)
    1990 E34 M5 3.6 (181)
    1988 E32 735i (198)
    2003 E39/2 530i touring (354)

  6. #21
    Mr ///M5. Benutzerbild von alpinab10biturbo
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    AW: Bericht: Motoruberhohlung E28S M5

    Gentlemen,

    Last Sunday, I visited the seller of a used M88/3 cylinder head somewhere in Germany. I didn't buy it on the spot as I found three spots of which I was not certain. Despite the advice of a fellow board member I didn't take it with me directly but took some pictures to have them assessed by an engine repair shop before making a final decision.

    From an operational point of view, the cost of the trip is higher then the asking price of the head so I could have bought it unseen. My only risk was that I would receive a crap head which is not usable and loose some money. Hypothetically, I could have sold it through the 'bay of e' afterwards but I am not a person to do that. Nevertheless, the engine repair shop that I consulted (and who will rebuild the engine in the upcomming months) gave me enough confidence so I took the plunge and bought it last week. I expect it to arrive in the upcomming week.
    Raymond

    1985 E28 M5 (203)
    1990 E34 M5 3.6 (181)
    1988 E32 735i (198)
    2003 E39/2 530i touring (354)

  7. #22
    Mr ///M5. Benutzerbild von alpinab10biturbo
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    AW: Bericht: Motoruberhohlung E28S M5

    As mentioned, I consulted a local engine repair shop last week. I won't mention names yet, but the shop owner has experience with the M88/S38 heads and is aware of the NLA status of the M88/3 head. He conformed that cracks are common but according to him these can be repaired reliably. Although that is not my prefered appraoch, BMW AG forces me to do so with their policy to declare M88/3 heads as NLA!!!

    Thums Up for the Mobile Tradition department grrrrrrr . To be honest, I contemplated about selling the E34S and E28S due to this unreliable behavior of BMW AG and buy a classic Mercedes Benz instead. After all, MB Classic center has a much better reputation for supplying even cosmetic parts for their classic cars then BMW. :crying:

    On the other hand, that doesn't make sense after all as such a decision would be based on frustration and I would have regretted such a decision down the line. In any case, I need to find a way to 'hedge' the logistical problems that BMW imposes to the owners of her classic cars.

    With other words, the engine will be rebuild and the head will be repaired. A groce estomation.

    Cylinder head
    - Routing away the cracks.
    - Filling the routed spots with new alloy
    - 24 new valve guides
    - 24 new valve seats
    - 24 new valves
    - Gasket set

    The head completely assembled and ready for fitting: ~3k Euro ex VAT

    Cylinder head
    - New main bearings
    - New piston rod bearings
    - New piston rings
    - Machining the engine block.

    Provided the pistons are OK: ~1k Euro ex VAT.

    Assembly of the engine is quoted for 500 Euro ex VAT. Off course, I want new chain-guides, chain-sprockets, oilpump etc etc so it will add up a bit more.
    Raymond

    1985 E28 M5 (203)
    1990 E34 M5 3.6 (181)
    1988 E32 735i (198)
    2003 E39/2 530i touring (354)

  8. #23
    Mr ///M5. Benutzerbild von alpinab10biturbo
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    AW: Bericht: Motoruberhohlung E28S M5

    I have started making preparations to lift the engine block. First, I removed the exhaust headers to gain some clearance.



    These headers are a nice piece of art. Safely stored away.



    Tapping of the old fluids (in this case the less then 1500km old Castrol TWS 10W60.



    Next step is the removal of some heat shields and the remaining auxiliary parts.
    Raymond

    1985 E28 M5 (203)
    1990 E34 M5 3.6 (181)
    1988 E32 735i (198)
    2003 E39/2 530i touring (354)

  9. #24
    Mr ///M5. Benutzerbild von alpinab10biturbo
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    AW: Bericht: Motoruberhohlung E28S M5

    Some would argue that it didn’t make sense for a 378km single distance trip to inspect a cylinder head with an asking price that is lower then the net-cost of the trip. If I would have to use my E34S M5 that would certainly have been the case, but I didn’t want to risk the chance that the cylinder head is nothing more then scrap metal. The seller (Andreas Heuer, owner of ‘E28 power’) did send me a few digital still images, but their resolution and quality were too low to make a decision so I took the plunge and decided to inspect it on site. We used my fathers Audi A6 2.5TDI for this trip, saving a few pennies on petrol cost. As I wrote in a previous post, I didn’t buy the cylinder head directly as it did show some faults and I wanted an expert opinion about two of the artifacts. Andreas did describe the artifacts on the phone beforehand, so they didn’t come as a surprise. Let’s zoom in onto two of the defects.



    The red arrow points to a groove around the intake side of the combustion chamber for cylinder number three. The green arrow points to bubbles in the casting. It is unknown weather these are caused by the casting process or by another phenomenon.

    This groove itself has a depth of roughly one millimeter. This is too much for machining down the cylinder had as there is no oversized head gasket available because of the unique construction of the valve train due to which it is impossible to re-torque the head bolts once the engine is assembled. To allow such a construction, the head gasket is made from high-grade steel [1], hence why it costs so much more then the normal head gasket of the SOHC M90 engine (E12 ///M535i) that uses the same engine block as the M88/3 engine.

    The most plausible explanation for this groove is coolant that escapes through a leakage path between the cylinder head and the cylinder head gasket where it changes into a gaseous state and explodes under high temperature. The bubbles (green arrow) could be the result of the casting process during production. According to the machine shop, both faults can be restored by routing out the damaged spots, fill them with new alloy and skim it to specs.

    This cylinder head does not suffer from the cracks between the intake-and exhaust ports as is the case with so many M88 / S38 heads. But if one takes a closer look on the following picture, a small hairline crack can be seen between the exhaust valve-seats (purple arrow).



    Normally, such a small hairline crack is nothing to worry about, but not to my requirements. Although I still prefer a new cylinder head, BMW’s policy to declare the M88/3 heads as no longer available forces me to rely on craftsmanship instead of process control. Maybe (and I hope) they will change that policy in the future. If the BMW Classic department (formerly Mobile Tradition) want to reach the same level as the Classic center from ‘Das Haus’ they have to reconsider their policy. Nuff said.

    Based on above pictures, the machine shop that I will use for overhauling the engine thinks that the cylinder head in Schöningen is usable so I agreed to buy it. A week later, the parcel with the cylinder head was delivered on my doorstep and after a visual inspection moved to my workshop where it resides in the same rack that I use for storing engine parts on.



    In any case, both cylinder heads need a significant amount of work and if I will use the cylinder head that I bought from Andreas, I assume that I need an oversized head gasket as well. According to member Stevie, these can be custom made from a third source. Another option is to use the solution that member jrobbo used when he had to rebuild the engine of his E34S ///M5 in 1999 [2]. He used a laser cut steel shim as compensation for the machining losses to straighten the cylinder head in combination with an OEM head gasket.

    To make this project work, I will need short lines to the machine shop, hence why I have decided to do business with one in my near vicinity. When some engineering decisions need to be made, I can convince myself without the need for long distance traveling.

    References:

    [1:] M88 engine description by BMW Motorsport Gmbh (page 5)

    [2:] Engine rebuild description written by member jrobbo as published on the M5 springboard and later on the E34 M5 FAQ’s.
    Raymond

    1985 E28 M5 (203)
    1990 E34 M5 3.6 (181)
    1988 E32 735i (198)
    2003 E39/2 530i touring (354)

  10. #25
    Mr ///M5. Benutzerbild von alpinab10biturbo
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    AW: Bericht: Motoruberhohlung E28S M5

    I proceeded with the removal of ancillary parts last Monday evening to prepare the short engine block for lifting. The cranckshaft sensor came off rather easy, but my attention was put to the patch close to the connector.



    I removed the insulation tape to inspect the wiring. The two signal wires and the shielding braid have been damaged in the past and very poorly repaired. I will have to replace this sensor with a new one at a cost of over 200 Euro's for the part alone.



    The alternator is the next part that came of.



    To avoid further damage to the DME wiring loom, I removed it fully. This will allow me to inspect it more closely and repair the poorly repaired patches that have been described in this thread earlier.



    I have to disconnect the oil lines from the oil filter house, but when that is done and the engine is unbolted from the gearbox and the engine mounts, the engine is ready to be lifted.

    Raymond

    1985 E28 M5 (203)
    1990 E34 M5 3.6 (181)
    1988 E32 735i (198)
    2003 E39/2 530i touring (354)

  11. #26
    Mr ///M5. Benutzerbild von alpinab10biturbo
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    AW: Bericht: Motoruberhohlung E28S M5

    It doesn’t make much sense to buy an engine-crane just for this occasion, so I borrowed one. The downside is that I had to wait for it becomming available. We first gave it a try on Wednesday evening 3-December.

    With most of the preparations done, we ‘only’ had to unbolt the gearbox und engine mounts. I had a distinct preference for keeping the gearbox in place. It is bolted to the engine with eleven bolts of different lengths and sizes, but all of them require a so-called inverse TORX nut. Stahlwille, a German tool manufacturer, offers these in a few sizes as special tooling for BMW.

    I don’t really know how it is possible to remove the gearbox without removing the engine, as four of the bolts are almost impossible to reach. Maybe there is a special tool or the engine needs to be lowered, but even so, three of the upper bolts have to be removed without seeing them. Better make sure you have the right high quality tools for that and don’t over torque these bolts as you’ll regret it when having to remove the gearbox again.

    I suspect that this was my problem, as I doubt that #231 still has the original clutch after 23 years, but that can be investigated later on. With little space to work, removing these bolts is a serious challenge, even with the cylinder head out of the car. The following picture shows two of the upper bolts that were really tight. We managed to unbolt the right bolt on Wednesday evening, but no such luck for the more accessible bolt on the left.



    This bolt can be seen from underneath the car and with some halve inch extension tools it can be reached, but even with the right nut, it didn’t turn. By that time, it was already 11:00PM so we called it a day and my acquaintance who helped me with this stage thought he had access to suitable tooling. We agreed to give it another try again on Thursday evening Wednesday the fourth but something came up in between so we postponed it to last evening (8 December).

    My acquaintance brought a few nuts that have the distinct function of finding grip in damaged heads. I don’t know how these are called, but these nuts have a few sharp blades that penetrate the bolt surface in perpendicular direction to allow a fair amount of force to be applied without loosing grip to the head. Fortunately, my halve inch ratchet has a very small pitch, which came in very handy in the crowded working space. It didn’t take much time before the troublesome bolt came off.



    I don’t want to reuse the bolts anyway so I don’t care. With nine bolts removed and no other bolts in sight, it was time to position the engine-crane and attach the chain to the lugs on the engine block. But the engine didn’t move forward. Also disengaging the clutch didn’t help. We then removed the starter-engine and the alloy engine mount on the exhaust side to get some more clearance when we discovered two more bolts sitting in the way. Problem was that these are even more difficult to access. Blunt said, there is no room to put on a halve inch nut. We tried of course, but to no avail. I finally decided to remove the engine and gearbox together, so we unbolted the gearbox support, removed the slave cylinder, gearshift, disconnected the propeller shaft and some wiring. Before reattempting to lift the engine, we first installed some of the bolts between the gearbox and engine to prevent the remaining bolts being overstressed.

    This time, everything worked like a charm and the gearbox/ engine assembly was ready to be lifted.



    Even though the radiator had been removed, the clearance is very tight (less then halve a centimeter). I needed to place the hood in a close to vertical position to gain enough clearance for the engine to be raised high enough for the gearbox to be maneuvered over the front nose but other then being hard work that was not really difficult.



    Before calling it a day, we separated the gearbox from the engine. The two remaining bolts were very tight and could only be released with air-powered tools. With other words, the gearbox had to come of anyhow.



    I have to strip the engine a bit further to prepare it for shipment to the machine shop. But with most of the removal work being done, I can focus myself on restoring functionality.
    Raymond

    1985 E28 M5 (203)
    1990 E34 M5 3.6 (181)
    1988 E32 735i (198)
    2003 E39/2 530i touring (354)

  12. #27
    Mr ///M5. Benutzerbild von alpinab10biturbo
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    AW: Bericht: Motoruberhohlung E28S M5

    I have stripped the engine block from all the removable parts.



    The pulleys and the harmonic balancer are for the machineshop as I don't have a breakerbar for the 36mm hub nut. Also not advisable with the engine hanging on the crane. The only other part that I could not remove is the bracket for the A/C pump because two of the 13mm bolts are only accessable after removing the harmonic balancer.

    We removed the clutch shortly after seperating the engine and gearbox.



    The gearbox with the release bearing. Looks rather messy. It appears that the seal of the prise-shaft is leaking. I think that most cars suffer from this.



    Damn, what do I hate this. A dealer replaced waterpump with less then 3k km on it. This should not have happened if the cooling system has been run on low mineral coolant (glycol). Just replacing the waterpump and topping up the coolant clearly is not enough. Looks crap to me.



    With the engine out of the car and the wheels a few inches higher there is much more work to do some simple work of cleaning up the engine bay and do so cosmetic work.

    Raymond

    1985 E28 M5 (203)
    1990 E34 M5 3.6 (181)
    1988 E32 735i (198)
    2003 E39/2 530i touring (354)

  13. #28
    Mr ///M5. Benutzerbild von alpinab10biturbo
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    Fahrzeug: M5 E34S (HD91), M5 E28S (DC91), 735i E32, 530i touring E39/2

    AW: Bericht: Motoruberhohlung E28S M5

    I just dropped of the engine block and two M88/3 cylinder heads at the Machineshop. According to the owner of the shop, the bores looked and felt pritty much OK. In the new year, he will start stripping the short engine and cylinder head to clean all the parts.

    I'll try to post regular updates from time to time.
    Raymond

    1985 E28 M5 (203)
    1990 E34 M5 3.6 (181)
    1988 E32 735i (198)
    2003 E39/2 530i touring (354)

  14. #29
    Mr ///M5. Benutzerbild von alpinab10biturbo
    Registrierungsdatum
    04.2003
    Ort
    kasekopf-land
    Beiträge
    1.392
    Fahrzeug: M5 E34S (HD91), M5 E28S (DC91), 735i E32, 530i touring E39/2

    AW: Bericht: Motoruberhohlung E28S M5

    Nothing news to report about the engine. I wanted to visit the engine shop last week, but my schedule didn't allow that; probably next week. I didn't do anyhting to #231 since removing the engine. I am not in a critical time-path at the moment so I used the holidays as an argument for a time-out and thus kept a low profile. I ended this break yesterday, when I removed the subframe.



    A close up of the surface that is bolted to the chassis. Looks OK after all these years; It is a bit wet though. As this car has not been used in bad weather, I assume this is caused by coolant spill, that cannot be avoided when tapping of all coolant. It is contaminated with dirt and I want to have it sand blasted, galvanized and powder coated.



    By removing the subframe, I have better acces to the front cross member of the chassis that needs attention. It's the only rust spot on #231. I got a good tip from Richard Baxter how to treat this POR15. (thanks Richard).



    Sidenote: I agree with some other members in the E34 section that it is much easier to lower the subframe then to lift the engine for replacing the sump gasket.
    Raymond

    1985 E28 M5 (203)
    1990 E34 M5 3.6 (181)
    1988 E32 735i (198)
    2003 E39/2 530i touring (354)

  15. #30
    Mr ///M5. Benutzerbild von alpinab10biturbo
    Registrierungsdatum
    04.2003
    Ort
    kasekopf-land
    Beiträge
    1.392
    Fahrzeug: M5 E34S (HD91), M5 E28S (DC91), 735i E32, 530i touring E39/2

    AW: Bericht: Motoruberhohlung E28S M5

    With the engine out of the car and the subframe removed, there are no more restrictions to clean the left-and right 'engine supports', the official name of the longitidual steel bars that are part of the forward structure. According to the parts catalogue, the individual parts are still available, but not as a whole.

    I removed the heatshield from the exhaust manifold after which the brake lines comming from the ABS-pump are exposed. Both engine supports where contaminated with dirt. The surface to which the subframe is bolted too showed some spots of light corrosion which is not uncommon after all these years.



    After spraying an aerosol with 'cold-degreaser', most of the dirt dripped of quitte easily. I only needed to wipe of the remaining dirt with a towel. This exposes the painted metal.



    IMHO, the overall condition is very good. There is some minor corrosion; that is the result of friction between the subframe and the engine supports. Although this friction is minor (at least when the bolts are properly torqued), twenty-three years and 155k km of service leaves traces.

    The only thing that needs to be done is sanding the surface lightly; chances are that only the paint finish is damaged and not the primer underneath. In any case, the grinded surface will be treated with a few layers of zync-primer.



    The right side engine support after cleaning (picture above) with the exhaust manifold heat-shield removed. A detailed picture of the brake lines and the right inner-sill (picture below)

    Raymond

    1985 E28 M5 (203)
    1990 E34 M5 3.6 (181)
    1988 E32 735i (198)
    2003 E39/2 530i touring (354)

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